The flooring ended up sitting here 10 days before installation started. A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part, Here is a previous thread where another reader had a similar question. I've pulled a lot of wood floor and it's either direct to the subfloor or rosin paper. I have found the rosin on that type of subfloor fails misaerably Let's see 1x floors are where I have encountered 90% of rosin paper. (Ice shield where necessary). I guess they didn't use it my area much. No matter what option you choose, keep in mind this is just a paper. Hardi plank is the one of the materials that benefits most from rain screen installation. I still don't think the paper helps much for floor squeaking. It could be fine, but I have seen delicate surface tape lift the finish. be how could you not expect to hear a click from film anyhow. Why would you want the wood to move more?>>I have always understood the paper to help even out the moisture coming from the basement traveling through the cracks in the subfloor to help prevent cupping.My understanding is that the paper/felt also (primarily?) If you're worried about smell from the Fiberlock, I would top coat it with the SW (or a similar zero VOC sealer). I think its called hardwood tape. You have to regularly inspect the covered areas to make sure nothing has gotten under the paper that could affect the floor. I trust my installer. While it is most commonly used as temporary floor protection during construction, Builders Paper can also be used on vertical surfaces. There are lots of ways but one layer of tar paper isn't going to do anything. Two boards being flat together, I don't think so, not without lateral movement. The infamous old "Know-it-all friend of the owner" syndrome!That and half-baked TV DIY shows causes more trouble on this earth than the tension between Arab and Jew ever thought of, Made for some interesting dinner conversation. ;^), "That and half-baked TV DIY shows causes more trouble on this earth than the tension between Arab and Jew ever thought of". Very often when the exterior trim or siding has failed, the felt beneath is still in good shape. Emerson, "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." I just had an oak floor laid and the installers used Fiji film for underlayment. Somebodytold meshe'd start growing on me! ", I'll agree on the newsprinbt. Shouldn't you be putting felt in all the grooves between boards as well? In the event that youre protecting hardwood floors, avoid taping directly to the floor. Mostly because they don't stay put, end up being a pain in my butt and somehow paint always gets on that one spot they got scooted away from. This whole argument seems like a waste of effort. "Why, it's safe release" as she pulled a piece off. Rosen paper is so much easier to work with. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. ft. to the roll..about $14 a roll. So bubble wrap would be a BAD thing? "do you poke every hornet's nest that you get near??? As for the Builders Paper, things might get a little confusing. Rosin paper is also sometimes used to temporarily protect a work site during construction. In other words,this whole thingwas a big deal over nothing. However, if youre going to use it on the floor, it should be for the limited time as possible. rosin paper will not stop moisture mitigagation like felt, if thats not the case then you're wasting brain cells. We use building wraps and roofing underlayment these days. The Tyvek was like new. The reason for the paper is to minimize the squeaking of floor boards rubbing subflooring. How many times have you seen tar paper "melt" to a floor or wall, where it has to be scraped off? On the flip side, however, the longer the tape remains in place, the stronger the tape bond becomes. "A Papermaker's View of the Standard of Permanent Paper, ISO 9706", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rosin_paper&oldid=1089969983, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 26 May 2022, at 16:34. I found that out the hard way. Let the thundercrack and the waves roar, we're going on. Now you need to buy them.But when they where free the only underlayment that they speced was felt paper.. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. . 15# felt paper is a dinosaur, I can't think of any reasonable use on a modern construction job. Downsizing to a Cottage for Aging in Place, SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Podcast 481: Detailing a Slab, High-Performance Water Heaters, and DIY Dense-Pack, Podcast 480: PRO TALK With Painter-Remodelers Miquel and David McCarley, Industry-First Cordless Rebar Cutter and Bender, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Pretty Good House Book Excerpt: Copper Farmhouse, 10 Dos and Don'ts for Electric In-Floor Heat, Framing Stairs to an Out-of-Level Landing, Good-Looking and Long-Lasting Traditional Gutters, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: William B. Using paper is a hold over from the days when subfloors were done with boards. (And once direct to the joists. You may not agree with each other, but you made it possible for me to explain the pros and cons of Red Rosin and builders felt to my wife well enough to make her think I knew what I was talking about. No problems in 17 years. seems with hardie plank or bricks here the tyveck causes condensation which wicks in through the staple holes or Improper installation causing rot, But this is the wettest county in the nation i believe, Even the building inspector was lamenting this here,Never heard of this problem with felt before, But it could be too to many guys from somewhere else just doing a fast crappy job, However i have pulled off hardie plank and behind it was soaked between the hardie and tyveck,At any rate theres 100 year old houses on the beach without any rot as there breathing with cedar and felt but theres big problems with new houses, The Oregon builders board is addressing this now.I dont claim to know everything but something is wrong. Both Lowes and HD carry ram board - at least around here. - M.K. If youre going to install it on the floor and walked on it, we recommended limiting it to a day or two. My preferance is red rosing for several reasons.. I've seen rosin paper under 90 year old floors in perfect condition.I've never heard of this debate between the two. I'm not worried about discoloration in most scenarios since most jobs don't require that paper be down for long periods of time. How do you go about attaching paper to floors that are newersay finished within a month? You obviously didn't look in the Picture of yourself folder. There isn't any petrochemical in red rosin to off gas. Trimaco makes no warranties of any nature or description, either express or implied, regarding the product including, without limitation, the warranties of quality, performance, merchantability, or fitness for a particular purpose or use. As far as I can see, what he's doingmeetsBruce's requriements, so he's likely to insist that hehas every right to do what he's doing. and the addition is about 1/8" higher than the original flooron one side of the room. Im very sensitive to smells and chemicals. Well, I bought one today; a Timber Check from Lee Valley tools; should be coming in a few days. They all have different properties and prices, although Rosin Paper and Builders Paper are the most common. It's sort of a plasticky stuff, very slippery. And if you want to switch in the middle of the installation, get out your checkbook and let your dollars do your talking. Consult with flooring manufacturer for recommended tape. Builders Paper, on the other hand, can last on the floor a week or two with light traffic. red rosin is traditional it's a slip sheet, but we use 15 # felt mostly. it has an additional advantage of being a vapor reducer.. so it will help marginally over damp basements and crawls, as far as the original question the red rosin doesn't indicate a sub-par install'' more a personal preference, if you wanted felt, you should have spec'd feltMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore, "f you wanted felt, you should have spec'd felt"Exactly! I do quite a few floors and don't use either of your options; there is a product we call "Triple thirty" which is an asphalt emulsion sandwiched between a top and bottom layer of Kraft. Tar Paper as underlayment/moisture barrier, https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-products-and-materials/15913/were-getting-hardwood-floors-installed-they-want-. Shurtape developed a tape just for this application. Excellence is its own reward! 2) This is just phase one of the flooring project. It can be applied directly to 24 hour finish on a hardwood floor. That wood is going to show up good and wet with the seasonal humidity. Unless you specified builder's felt in lieu of the red rosin paper, I think you are being unreasonable. In the event that you want to keep the paper installed for and longer period or are intending to carry out some more complex tasks, it would be a good idea to upgrade your tape. A-holes. EAST COAST ONLY (shipments from Manning, SC or Chicago, IL), WEST COAST ONLY (shipments from Phoenix, AZ or Portland, OR). And I have been elected to be the one. Been rehabing old homes for twenty some odd years. Thats how I see it too although a secondary benefit would be the reduction of squeaking. If you are sensitive to smells, use the rosin paper. I've installed a lot of hardwood flooring, and I've used both asphalt felt and rosin paper. Squeaks are from wood moving across nails that don't move. ThereforeI expect that he wouldinsist that we pay for any new wood that's needed if the wood is taken out. Therefore, the chances of the, Red Rosin Paper Vs Builders Paper Overview, Rosin Paper vs Builders Paper: Application, Rosin Paper vs Builders Paper: Durability. You won't run into the discoloration scenario. Red rosin paper is made for exactly this and some people don't like the smell of felt. Neither asphalt felt nor rosin paper is an air barrier, so if you think that they will block the odor from the Fiberlock, I would just say -- maybe. They also used red rosin paper underneath the cedar shingle siding on theexterior of the house. What I wanted to do is thank everyone for the advice. Red rosin paper turn to dust? https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-products-and-materials/15913/were-getting-hardwood-floors-installed-they-want-. Not being a pro, I checked out Red Rosin paper on the web and found out thatitis marginal at best; builders felt is far better in the long-term. 2022 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. I have no idea why your flooring contractor thinks that you need a vapor barrier in this location. can't wait to see what the day's rowe will be.. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming. Would it make sense to put down two layers of the Rosin Paper to help with the remaining Fiberlock odor? say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." Test before use. House was built in '91, "smell has never been a problem. This time I'll be ready. Mesic. A board rubbing against another board or on a fastener, I've seen. I personally prefer at least two full weeks. Seen it at a proshow. I use a heavy brown paper. I contracted to have a Brucesolid oak floor (3/4 x 2 1/4 strips)installed anddiscovered at the end of the day that my contractor is using Red Rosin paper instead of builders felt. )I'm not interested in debating something that make absolutely no difference. If he were using no paper at all, that would be a big deal. Thx! One roll is 140 feet long and 35 inches wide. Are Expensive Building Components Necessary? I can confidently However, rosin paper may well last long enough.But also tar paper, in the event of a fire will burn better. Else, the paper will shift and move around if its not attached to anything on the sides. I'll leave this debate to those with grander imaginations regarding the benefits of one over the other. Rose, Expert insights on techniques and principles. 500 sq. I have always understood the paper to help even out the moisture coming from the basement traveling through the cracks in the subfloor to help prevent cupping. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. That's wishful thinking. Just keep in mind that cheaper tapes will wear out before the paper does, meaning youll have to periodically repair and replace the tape at some of the seams. Red rosin paper is now available in 200-ft pro-sized rolls! A belt sander would blend it nicely or they make a floor filler material. Always! The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, How to get rid of tape marks on hardwood floors, http://www.richdistinc.com/application-transfer-tapes/lift-off-regular, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. professional painting contractor - retired. wood riding on nails is opnly one of at least three reasons why wood floors an squeak. Wood/wood is one that the paper barrier prevents. Red rosin has been the choice under flooring for decades. That's good but no good if you need to cut it to fit a room. However, rosin paper may well last long enough.I've found red rosin in good shape in 100 year old houses: a bit brittle perhaps, but still functioning. Some flooring guys lay shingles to blend things. They used red rosin paper when my house was built in 1913, and where I've had to make repairs to the flooring the stuff appears to still be in good shape. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming. I don't use rosin paper because of the potential for staining if it gets wet.
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